Posted on Tue, 13th December 2005 at 12:56 under Job Seeking
My prospective employers felt that my ethos and approach to software engineering would not be of benefit when serving their customers. We’re a commercial organisation. We cannot do the right thing for all our clients all the time.
So, basically, all the depth of knowledge, innovation, creativity, service and quality
I could bring to the relationship was not welcome.
How very British.
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Ali said: December 14th, 2005 at 16:15
Paul,
How many more times is this going to happen before you get the message. Commercial companies don`t give a shit about ethics. They are in business to make money pure and simple and this particular company is a good example of clever PR. Their site spouts a lot of PC crap about the environment and being good corporate sponsers but in reality they will sell their own grandmothers as shark bait to close a deal and improve the bottom line.
If you want to get a job, you are going to have to keep all this goody goody stuff to yourself and learn to slaver like a greedy wolf contemplating it`s next meal. They don`t care if you are a good person, they only care about how much money you can make for them by sucking your skills like a vampyre sucks blood.
NOW GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
ReplyLibertus said: December 15th, 2005 at 09:36
Ali,
Will you please stop being RIGHT? It’s getting very frigging annoying!
On a more serious note, my friend. Why is it that, after 20-odd years of hard word and intense education, that the result of my commitment to the craft becomes the very thing that puts people off employing me? Isn’t it rather perverse that I have become my own worst enemy?
As Lucy said, it is time for radical thought and action.
ReplyAli said: December 15th, 2005 at 20:48
Paul,
I really hate being so negative about the situation (even if I am right) but yes it must be very frustrating for you to have worked so hard to become both a first class programmer and an at least second class human being (only kidding) and have it thrown back in your face. It is just the nature of the beast and if you want to get a job and make enough money be be able to travel again, you are just going to have to suck it up.
The way companies work generally make me want to puke or kill someone but that`s the way it goes, unless you work for yourself and generate enough money that you can afford to choose your clients based on a higher standard.
ReplyVictor Wood said: December 15th, 2005 at 22:25
Paul,
Have you ever considered becoming a Labrador?
ReplyLibertus said: December 15th, 2005 at 23:56
Victor,
It’s a thought. I’d need a particularly dog-loving owner, of course.
ReplyLibertus said: December 16th, 2005 at 00:03
Ali,
I’m inclined to generate my own income. I already know how to do so and where I can do it. I just need to get there, as you point out.
Incidentally, I do consider second-class human to be a reasonable compliment, especially coming from a first-class specimen such as your good self.
ReplyAli said: December 16th, 2005 at 15:22
I like to believe that I trancend such human labels as “class” but it’s good of you to recognise my place at the pinnacle of existence.
If you are considering reclassifying yourself as a canine, can I suggest choosing something a little higher on the canine tree, such as a pyrenean mountain dog. See www.pmdc.org.uk/ for details.
Having a plan is always a good idea, however I’m guessing that the master plan requires some funding, hence the need to compromise your principles in the short term in order to achieve your long term goals. This has always been the basic problem, how far are you prepared to go to achieve what you desire?
ReplyVictor Wood said: December 16th, 2005 at 20:57
I honestly think that Paul would not do well with that much hair.
ReplyLibertus said: December 16th, 2005 at 21:09
Nope, I’m just not made out to be a dog. I could be a cat, of the bigger kind. I have my own mane.
ReplyAli said: December 17th, 2005 at 01:13
With regards to your hair, 1975 called, they want their hair back…….
ReplyLibertus said: December 17th, 2005 at 18:10
What possible use could they have for it anymore, except perhaps to look good in old photos?
ReplyVictor Wood said: December 18th, 2005 at 11:57
Libertus
I don’t know how old you are, but if you have been in the software industry for 20 or so years, then you are probably getting a little long on tooth. Therein might lie a significant part of your difficulty in gaining useful employment in the UK. Being long in tooth, I have experienced first-hand age discrimination in this country. It had absolutely nothing to do with my qualifications of work ethic, or attitude. It was simply down to the fact that most companies don’t want to hire old geezers (the concept of “old” keeps changing as well, with younger and younger folks being deemed as “too old”). In this country you can blatantly advertise your prejudices with employment ads that ask for “young, energetic, dynamic” candidates. And young-at-heart don’t count…
ReplyLibertus said: December 18th, 2005 at 12:50
Victor,
I’m 37, which I must say I think is a little young to be “old in the tooth” but, of course, I’m in the I.T. industry. I have seen times change and with them, attitudes and employment practices.
I think I have too severely limited my options by being based up here in Sheffield rather in London. I hope my age has nothing to do with it.
Replyself financing non scrounging tax payer ! said: December 19th, 2005 at 11:46
yes..and i can see there is no brains in this site obviously you are talking crap obviously you are are not on this planet and how are you financing yourself or is it us the taxpayers financing this drivel ??? hope you dont have kids cos they will be starving !!!!
ReplyLibertus said: December 19th, 2005 at 12:40
As if you can talk, student.
ReplyLibertus said: December 19th, 2005 at 14:03
Dear “tax payer”,
I am so glad you asked! No, it is not you the taxpayers that are financing this drivel, it is I, the taxpayer, who is financier. It is a long story and I have been dying to tell it for years. I shall now do so, in great detail. I am so glad you asked!
“I, Taxpayer”
Part 1 - “The Early Years, February 1985 to April 1997″
I started working in February 1985 for a small software house in Aberdeen. I was 17 at the time and not even all the way through my last year of studies at Fraserburgh Academy. My starting salary was £4,000 a year, which might seem low (this was before the minimum wage), but I was living at home and £60-70 a week into my young hands seemed like riches. I wasn’t paying much tax and N.I. then, about £10 a week.
As the company grew over the next few years my salary increased quite dramatically. I was one of two programmers in a firm of 7 that made its money selling software and those were pretty good days. By the time I was 20, I was earning around £15,000 a year and was sharing a flat in Aberdeen with some “friends”. I reckon I was paying around £80 per week tax and N.I. at that point.
In February 1995, I was 27, married to Lindsay with two children, owned a house, etc. all the usual family stuff with concomitant financial commitments. I was working for the same company, earning a salary £22,000 and paying tax of around £120 per week. I was made redundant (with a statutory minimum payoff) and I had to quickly find similarly paid work to support my family.
After a frantic job search (my first real one!) I ended up with a choice of two jobs, both in London. One was with a large software company at a starting salary of £35,000 and the other was with a greetings card company at a starting salary of £25,000 rising to £27,000. I made a monumental error of judgement and chose the lower paid job for a variety of stupid reasons. Anyway, I moved away from Aberdeen to live and work in London. It was one of the most painful things I have ever had to do: leave my wife, young daughter and infant son in order to provide them with financial security. We made an enormous sacrifice during a desperate time.
It worked for a while. I lived as frugally as I knew how in London while sending as much of my earnings back home as I could. My employer was sensitive to my personal situation and allowed me to use my paid leave to take long weekends home every couple or so weeks so that I could see my family. Even with my employer’s generousity, I could only reasonably afford to travel by bus so those trips involved very little time with my family and 26 hours on a coach. It was tough.
What neither Lindsay or I knew was that a timebomb was ticking. It transpired that for some months we had been living beyond our means. Our outgoings were higher than our income and we were getting deeper and deeper into debt. The costs incurred by my move to London and my choice of the lower paid job had made matters much, much worse. Consider that we trying to finance, on first my £25,000 then £27,000 salary, the house in Aberdeen, a car, my subsistence in London, the welfare of two children, the lifestyles of two late-20s adults and our debts. We were in exactly the kind of mess that these days Alvin Hall sorts out, but Alvin wasn’t on the telly back then. We had no-one to turn to for help because no-one else knew we needed it.
The inevitable disaster finally happened in (I think) 1996 when the bank that mortgaged our house threatened to foreclose on us due to our debts. The only escape the bank offered us, and look how stupid this is, was to borrow more money from them to cover our debt to them and pay it back over six months. We had no choice but to accept as our family home was on the line.
Now, I explained that our troubles were caused by our outgoings being higher than our income. Well, our outgoings had just increased and my income was no different. I had no choice but to seek higher-paid employment and an option available to me was freelancing. I looked for freelancing work and in April 1997 I picked up a contract programming job with a major bank in Sheffield. My final salary in London was around £31,000 which was into the top tax bracket. I reckon I was paying around £170 per week in tax and N.I..
I need a break. My contracting career, April 1997 to July 2001, will be in part 2.
Ali, your memory would be most helpful. I’m not so concerned with what I’ve missed out at this point, only that what I have said so far is accurate as to time.
Replyjax said: December 20th, 2005 at 13:25
Um, you know this blog thing that you have? It’s a really good place for putting blog posts….more likely to get higher readership than comments…
Replyjax said: December 20th, 2005 at 13:26
oh, and ps, was the post title a hint to the employers name? If so, you’re really lucky to get any kind of response from them, I didn’t even get the courtesy of a no.
ReplyLibertus said: December 20th, 2005 at 13:42
Jax,
If I’m happy with my career story, I’ll promote it to a page or something like that.
If you click “more” on the outreach control, you will get a bigger hint as to the name of the prospective employer. I got two interviews out of them and they did show me the courtesy of rejecting my application to my face.
ReplyAli said: December 20th, 2005 at 14:47
So far it all seems accurate to me. We met up a few times while you were working at the greeting cards place in London and we discussed your salary at the time. I remember you quitting and looking around for some contract work. I think I gave you some numbers for agencies around that time as well. It was also around this time that some of your European travels started.
ReplyLibertus said: December 20th, 2005 at 16:16
Dear “tax payer”,
“I, Taxpayer”
Part 2 - “The Contracting Years, April 1997 to July 2001″
I’ll start with a quick recap of part 1, the early years. I started working in Aberdeen in February 1985 at the age of 17, proceeded to get married, have two children, buy two houses, be made redundant, move to London and finally go freelance in April 1997 at the age of 29. By generous estimation, my career earnings to that date were £200,000 and I had contributed roughly £40,000 in tax and £20,000 in N.I.
Being a contractor is fundamentally different to being an employee, no more so than in the tax area.
Anyway, in April 1997 I moved to Sheffield to begin my first contract, programming for a major bank. At the time it seemed like a solution to all our problems. I was earning £30 per hour and Sheffield had a lot going for it. It is cheaper than London and closer to Aberdeen so I would be able to visit my family more often. The first few weeks were difficult as I was pretty much broke and the expense of relocation was far higher than I had anticipated - a lesson I had not learned after my move to London. Fortunately, my friend and business partner Peter helped me out and I eventually settled into the new job, moved into a bed and breakfast and got on with it.
I don’t remember much about this time. Though I was successful at work, my family relationships suffered. As my business life improved, my personal life deteriorated. It all came to a head in October 1998 when Lindsay and I separated.
Now everything changed. It was the beginning of the end of everything I had worked for. It was, still is, a grindingly painful period in my life that will end with my having nothing. That terrible thought, having nothing, consumed many of my waking and slumbering moments for several years and led me to make serious errors of judgement that would completely wreck both my business and personal life.
My contract with the bank came to an end in November 1998. I quickly found another contract with a firm in Hemel Hempstead who specialised in high-security data encryption systems. The rate was higher too at £35 per hour. I moved to Hemel Hempstead, cheaper this time as I had learned a little, living in shared accomodation and getting on with my work while burying my head in the sand personally.
During all this turmoil, I set up a business to remove my dependence on Peter’s company to handle my payroll. Essentially, I had been an employee of Peter’s company up to that point and was keen to go it alone, as was he. I made so many mistakes here that it would be embarrassing to list them all. The most serious were my failure to assess feasibility of my running a business and my poor choice of business partners. I took absolute control of my own business with absolutely no clue what I was doing.
Meanwhile, I was making poor choices when dealing with my family situation for a similar reason.
Rather than decisively solving my many problems, I exacerbated them for a long time in a naïve attempt to both “do the right thing” and “do nothing”.
Anyway, my contract in Hemel Hempstead lasted through to October 1999 when I made another mistake, this time poor selection of customer. I moved to London to work for a small new-media company on the recommendation of a friend. The rate was fantastic - £6,000 per month - and it was an opportunity to get on the internet wave while it was still building. Unfortunately, it broke. The company ran out of money because their client didn’t have any. I worked there for 3 months but was paid for 1 and a half. I submitted invoices for work dome but they were never paid.
In November 1999 I decided, reasonably I believe, not to live in London but to have a permanent home in Sheffield and commute weekly to London. I was on a good contract (or so I thought) and could probably even work remotely. I rented a nice house in Sheffield with enough room for my children to come visit and started to set up home in preparation. I took out a big loan to pay off some of the others I had and to leave enough left over for some basic furnishings. Unfortunately, the other loans didn’t get paid off because my supposed income from the company in London never materialised.
From September 1999 until January 2000 I was supposed to receive £20,000 and had actually received £9,000. I scouted around for work, picking up a little from Peter, but not enough to cover my commitments.
In May 2000 I got the contract of my life. My dream contract, working for IBM Warwick as a consultant on a good rate of around £40 per hour. I didn’t want to give up my home in Sheffield so I decided to commute by train to Warwick (I didn’t have a driving license at that time). The work was great but the travel was punishing. The work wasn’t actually in Warwick but all over the country. I kept up for a few months but I was starting to burn out.
The IBM contract ended in September 2000 and I was out of work again, with no reduction in financial comittments. The business was in tatters, my personal life no better, I was deeply in debt, facing insolvency and suffering from depression. I needed money more than anything and, luckily, I got it.
In December 2000 I started a contract in Düsseldorf, Germany with a telecommunications company. My previous contract with IBM was the kicker and I was hired as a consultant to a fairly large development team. The rate was enormous at £60 per hour. I was battling depression but fought my way though to the end of the project in July 2001.
That contract saved me. I pocketed just enough money to pay my business tax bill, some of the debts and keep myself out of serious trouble with a roof over my head, for a while.
I didn’t work again until May 2002. Lindsay filed for divorce in February 2002.
The job in Sheffield was well paid and with substantial help from my friends and family I managed to pick myself up and started to solve my problems. I saved enough over 2 years to go travelling for a year in July 2004. I have had no income since my return in July 2005.
Now, dear “tax payer”, I get to my point. My generous estimate of my contracting career earnings is £200,000. The tax I paid was far, far higher than it should have been for a variety of reasons. I estimate £35,000. I have no idea of my N.I. contributions for the time but they were substantial. I also contributed during my last period of permanent employment.
I don’t want to be unemployed but as I have contributed subtantially to the National Insurance fund throughout my career, I am entitled to some back when I hit hard times to help me find work again. The same will be true for you if, one day, you join the ranks of the economically inactive.
ReplyLibertus said: December 20th, 2005 at 18:01
So, dear “tax payer”, what was your point?
As you can see, I pretty much pervert any attempt to ridicule me. Your comment is, at best, flogging a dead horse.
On the other hand, if you have read my drivel, you now know you are kicking a fellow human when they are down, for reasons unknown. If that makes you feel better about yourself, go right ahead and keep doing it.
ReplyRach said: December 20th, 2005 at 19:15
I trust your CV doesn’t read quite like this? (-:
ReplyLibertus said: December 20th, 2005 at 19:17
There’s much more swearing in my CV.
ReplyA different "Tax Payer" said: December 20th, 2005 at 19:41
I always find it amusing when certain sections of society shout about the “lazy dole scrounging unemployed”. This might be justifyable if the person is an early 20`s student who has never worked a day in their lives but has instead benefited from being able to attend university partly at the tax payers expense, partied and enjoyed cheap beer for 4 years and now find that they cannot get work, must claim income support from a system they have never paid into because they see a job at McDonalds as beneath a “Graduate”.
However for those of us who have worked for 20 years and paid a considerable amount of money into the government purse (I estimate that I have paid in around 150 - 200 thousand pounds), I find the amount offered in the form of unemployment benefit to be insultingly small. No one like to be unemployed but the system exists so that should misfortune befall you, there is at least a little help available. You cannot live the life of reilly on a dole cheque. You cannot even cover all your costs no matter how many forms you fill out, unless you are an asylum seeker or have a disability of some sort.
Might I suggest that the other “Tax Payer” take a long hard look at themselves and reflect on their reasons for attacking Mr Mitchell in such an ungentlemanly/Unladylike way
ReplyAnonymous said: December 21st, 2005 at 21:53
wat the hell is all this about? its really boring aswell.
Replyjax said: December 21st, 2005 at 22:35
Hadn’t realised you’d linked. Yes that is they - never called me back, assume that’s a no. Ah, did you get to do a work day with them? Will keep an eye out for other stuff for you, and drop your cv on to a couple of agencies who’ve been good for me.
ReplyLibertus said: December 21st, 2005 at 23:23
Jax,
Thanks muchly. I’ve been applying for jobs a bit further afield now, given that there’s little chance of being hired before February.
The company mentioned a work day during my interview but I didn’t get that far, obviously.
ReplyLibertus said: December 21st, 2005 at 23:24
Dear Anonymous,
It’s a lecture. It’s supposed to be boring.
ReplyAli said: December 22nd, 2005 at 18:21
LOL.
ReplyAnonymous Ali said: December 23rd, 2005 at 00:02
I’ve decided that I don’t like people using anonymous posts. I can see the need in countries where free speech is restricted and people live in fear of being arrested for their thoughts and beliefs, but this is the west. We don’t need to post as Anonymous, it’s just cowardly. Stand up and be counted or shut the fuck up……….
ReplyLibertus said: December 23rd, 2005 at 08:39
Human rights aside, I prefer to use an accurate moniker but I don’t mind people posting anonymously. It is, like many things on the internet, an illusion.
Imagine thinking one has got away with a burglary by virtue of not signing the guestbook after using one’s unique pass-key to get into the building.
Our most recent anonymous poster was most likely Jessica.
ReplyJessica said: January 12th, 2006 at 10:07
No that anonymous post wasn’t me today is the first time I have been on your website in a long time as I have been too busy with my life so as you once told me and my friends get your facts straight before you speak!
ReplyLibertus said: January 12th, 2006 at 12:12
Hi Jessica,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, Christo and your mum.
I stand corrected and apologise for speaking bent facts.
My detective powers are limited, so I wasn’t sure it was you, which is why I said it was “most likely” you. I hoped you were reading regularly but, of course, I’m far happier to know that you are busy with life. Life is much more fun than reading blogs.
So what is keeping your life busy? Are your studies going well? What do you think of Apple computers? Are they any good?
ReplyLindsay said: January 13th, 2006 at 22:59
Your son has not been called “Christo” for several years now!
ReplyLibertus said: January 13th, 2006 at 23:10
As I haven’t seen him for several years, I rely on you for all I know about him. Thanks for the correction.
How about an e-mail telling me what they’re up to? I’d appreciate that.
ReplyLindsay said: January 14th, 2006 at 19:39
I asked the children if they would like me to keep you up to date on their lives….. Jessica said isnt he a bit late as in several years with his interest and you apparently have made up your mind as to what you think of her and who she is and published it on your website for all to see. Your son said who? i explained who you were and he declined your interest again stating quite a large amount of years too late. I respect their wishes. As for not seeing them for several years that was your choice not theirs and the information sharing decision about them and their lives is their choice not yours.
ReplyLibertus said: January 14th, 2006 at 22:30
Children don’t have the right to make a choice about whether a parent can receive information about them or not. Medical information from age 12 I respect. Anything else, up to age 16, is your choice to divulge, not theirs.
As both are still under 16, please disrespect their wishes and please send me an e-mail telling me what they’re up to.
ReplyLindsay said: January 15th, 2006 at 08:33
No I will not disrespect their wishes and how dare you ask the one parent who has been there at all times to go against them. Think about what you are asking without being selfish, there is no choice between their wishes and your selfish ones.
You manipulated a response from Jessica by saying a comment from someone was from her and it wasnt, not the first time you have done this you did the same to me and it is all a game to get us playing again.
All you achieve is to hurt and upset Jessica what a wonderful person ! Never mind Parent! Your choices are now haunting you for that I am sorry, because although being a parent is hard particularly the situations the children have been put in through abnormal pressures and situations I have been there every step of the way and know my children, their likes, dislikes, worries, aspirations, fears, favourite music, clothes, colours, personalities and you walked away and you cannot no matter how much you try turn back time.
Do not play your games with trying to get responses from people who have chosen for whatever reason not play your games. Am sorry you are out of work and are bored but you cannot think I have time now, am back from my travels how are my kids doing? Then not like their choices and ask me to go against them!!!! Get a grip!!!!
Children do have a right many rights, so now you want to know? Why?? Why not stay around to find out??
Address these questions then maybe you will get somewhere with them. A question from your son Why did you only send birthday cards and chrsitmas cards to my sister and not me for years?? Yes you did it the years solicitors were watching but not before and not after? Why no acknowledgement for me only Jessica?
I know what will happen now of course you will say this is not the place for such discussions but you are the one who does this and this is where the kids want the response for everyone to see. Lets see how honest you are with your friends or if it is only bad things about their mum and auntie goes on this website.
ReplyLibertus said: January 15th, 2006 at 11:53
I have started a new post to continue this conversation and make it is easier to find.
Replyneo tech secret said: March 19th, 2006 at 02:38
My home church welcomes all denominations, but mainly they prefer tens and twenties.
ReplyDebt Elimination said: April 3rd, 2006 at 14:16
Anybody know how we get an RSS feed for this blog? I am not very tech savvy and would really like to get updated info on this blog. Thanks!
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